She says she confronted him about killing her brother and mother, but Karl Karlsen denied his involvement in both deaths. He grinned like a Cheshire cat and said, Its been 20 years. The Dateline episode "The House on the Hill" investigates the death of 30-year-old Christina Karlsen. 'He didn't make an effort to save her. Christina's grave, next to her son Levi's. Richard "Dick" Carlson. Karlsens two daughters opened up to ABC about how difficult the whole process has been. According to Syracuse.com, Christina Karlsen died trapped behind boarded-up windows in a smoke-filled bathroom January 1, 1991. He also appeared in Dug's Special Mission as a supporting character, in George and A.J. He was 91. 21:47 GMT 28 Feb 2020 The accommodations may have been rustic, but Christina found a way to make the wooded setting magical for the couples three children during long days home alone on the property. In late 2008, nearly 18 years after the fire, Karlsens 23-year-old son, Levi, died in yet another alleged freak accident, coincidentally on the same day Levi signed a will that left his entire estate to Karlsen. As part of his plea deal, the insurance fraud charges were dropped. And on Monday, a California jury returned a verdict: That wasnt an accident either. Then in 2001, Levi was killed by a pickup truck, with the deadly incident originally presumed to be an accident. Karlsen has since been transferred back to New York state where he is currently being held at the Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora, New York. According to Bousson, Karl was also physically abusive, once slamming into her so hard that she flew across the room. Copyright 2023 Heavy, Inc. All rights reserved. With family by his side, Dick passed away peacefully on February 22, 2023 at the age of 85. This prosecution was a knee-jerk reaction to the death of Mr. Karlsens son in New York, Esquivel said. , updated sidewalk tractor for sale; who are the parents of chaunte wayans READ NEXT: Haley Andersons Death: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know. But Karl has a secret -- their suspicious. Bousson said she went to the house the day after the fire and could not for the life of me understand why somebody didnt try to get [Christina] out. In 2013, he plead guilty to second-degree murder. Karl's children long suspected Karlsen was responsible for their mother's death. My aunt [Colette]. On February 3, 2020, he was found guilty of the murder of his first wife. A workplace protection bill is still under consideration at the General Assembly, but some lawmakers want to hear what Virginia's Chamber of Commerce says about the measure. Karl Karlsen. That November, Karlsen went with Levi to take out a $700,000 life insurance police on Levis life, naming himself as the sole beneficiary. I tried to make sure that they knew their mother through me. The episode, called "The House. what states require consummation of marriage; new milford ct police scanner; reply to opposition to motion to compel california; environmental opportunities and threats in business; She told him she had made up her mind about what he had done. At the time, her death was ruled an accident. Although he initially denied having any involvement in his sons death, he later admitted to getting into the vehicle while it was on the jack, causing it to fall on top of his son. When they returned home, Cindy placed a frantic call to 911 reporting that the truck had fallen on her stepson and crushed his chest. I told him I knew he killed my mother and brother, she testified, according to the Union Democrat. Kent said he "never saw" Buske's report and "didn't know" who Buske was. He very much was trying to get life figured out and he was happier, she added. The shocking details of the Karlsen family saga are explored in a new episode of NBC Dateline. Calaveras County Sheriffs Office, I started screaming, Christinas mother, Arlene Meltzer, told. The sun was always shining in her world.. She was an amazing young lady. She added, Obviously what he did was wrong, but I still struggle with the fact that prior to the arrests, he was the most important person in my life.". But it wouldnt be the only tragedy to impact the family. Karlsen's first wife Christina died in a fire in their family home in California. 2023 CNBC LLC. He told investigators at the time that he was not able to go back for his wife. The U.S. has caused the most global warming. 24/7 coverage of breaking news and live events. Carol and Dan Carlson Dan called 911 around 9 p.m. on the night of July 18, 1998, saying he had come home to find his wife unresponsive and covered in blood. Karl boarded up the opening from the inside. In the years that would follow, Karl settled down with the family on a farm in Varick, New York, where he raised Belgium draft horses as a hobby. Get all your true crime news from Oxygen. Details about the case reveal a long saga of physical and mental abuse that ultimately resulted in an insurance scheme and two murders. Bousson created a Facebook group and wrote letters to law enforcement and politicians calling for the investigation into her sisters death. Powered by. Gary Muehlberger. It was pretty much like an old miners shack, Alexander said. Even Homer brought his family. I'm not sure, but maybe he killed Christina. In November of 2013, he pleaded guilty to second-degree murder for his sons death and received a sentence of 15 years to life. Growing up with their father Karl Karlsen, sisters Erin DeRoche (L) and Kati Reynolds are no strangers to tragedy. This article was published more than3 years ago. It was a funeral for Carl. Wenatchee World, The (WA) - Wednesday, December 13, 2000 ~~~~~ Ernest S. Carlson, 85, of Ephrata, died Friday, Dec. 8, 2000. It was more pained and sad. Karl Karlsen killed his son in Seneca County after taking out a $700,000 life insurance policy. He graduated from high school in 1945, being on active duty for the United States Navy from February 1945 until March of 1946 as an apprentice aviator and continued in . Rhonda Carlson, [photo], first wife of convicted mass murderer Christopher Henderson, en route to her court appearance on Wednesday. Authorities determined she died from smoke inhalation while trapped in the bathroom as the fire raged outside of the bathroom door. One day, Carl befriended an adventurous girl named Ellie, who was also a . He had crushed his son beneath a pickup truck, leaving him to die under its weight, and then collected $707,000 from Levis life insurance, according to court filings by Seneca County, N.Y., prosecutors. Fearing Karlsen may be planning to kill her, she took her their son, Alexander, and fled to Kentucky to live with a cousin. Levi, a married father of two young daughters, died on November 20, 2008 in an apparent accident when he was just 23. Since Christina Karlsen was killed in a house fire, it was originally ruled to be an accident. Years later, her son Levi died in what appeared to be a freak accident. Powered by. His wife, Roberta, had died in 1959 following unspecified natural causes. YouTube My sister and I committed that our kids were going to know each other, Bousson said. All of his friends were there. Karl collected $215,000 in insurance money for his wifes death. So, I definitely ramped up my activities to try and get their attention that we're still out here. It ended up being $700,000 because Levi died accidentally. It was enough for investigators to bring Karl in for questioning. Kyle Rittenhouse testifies during cross examination in his trial at the Kenosha County Courthouse in Kenosha, Wis., on Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2021. Cassie Rood, Levis ex-wife and mother of his children, said she was devastated by the loss. 'That's not how people are supposed to act when someone they love is trapped and literally burning in front of them.'. Levi and I would talk about [the day of the fire] a lot about what he remembered, about what I remembered and about how things just didn't add up, DeRoche said. On New Years Day in 1991, Christina died after getting trapped inside the bathroomwhere the only window had been boarded up with plywood days earlierafter the fire broke out inside the home. I was scared half to death.. It wasnt until 2012 when Karlsens marriage to his second wife Cindy began falling apart, that she began to suspect there were more to their deaths and she feared she would be his next victim. In November 2008, Levi Karlsen, 23, was crushed to death while working on his fathers truck at the Karlsen family farm in Varick, New York. Levi Karlsen's grave, next to his mother Christina's. Eighteen years prior to Levi Karlsens death, Boussons beloved older sister and best friend Christina Chris Karlsen, 30, died in a mysterious fire in the home she shared with Karl and their three children in rural Murphys, California, on New Year's Day, 1991. Fortunately, Karl would never have the opportunity to arrange any more accidents for his family members. The guy's just lost one of his closest friends! Would love your thoughts, please comment. The coincidences started getting to her. In February of 2020, Karl was found guilty of first-degree murder by arson in that case as well and sentenced to life without parole. Seneca County's Karl Karlsen, convicted in separate trials of killing his first wife and their son, will be featured on an episode of Dateline NBC at 9 p.m. Friday. Two years after Levi's death, Karl's second wife, Cindy Best, began to grow suspicious of her then-husband and hired a. We want to hear from you. After dad was arrested, I started to then have to go through major milestones in my life without a father, without a mother and without my brother. In 1991, Christina Karlsen was killed in a house fire. You name it, it was used as a weapon against my brother.. By 2012, Karl Karlsens second wife Cindy Best said she and Karls marriage of 18 years was falling apart. I tried to fill the gap. Amy. She said its been a brutal cycle of heartbreak for the family. Now, Cindy had to ask the question: Could this really have been another coincidence? Photo: I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt he did it. After Levi Karlsens death was ruled an accident, Karl Karlsen collected a $700,000 payout. Karl Karlsen told investigators that the bathroom window, which was boarded up at the time of the fire, had been broken by Christina just days before. The woman Karl had been dating at the time of Levis death eventually put forward information to local New York authorities that raised enough questions to spur an investigation. We knew what he had done to our mother, DeRoche exclusively told 20/20. That sentence will only take effect once Karlsen serves out the remainder of his 15-years-to-life sentence for the murder of his son Levi, according to prison records. I mean it was an accident and its, I blame myself every day just like you said, he said in the interrogation, according to American Greed.. In 2012, Cindy Best was suspicious of her husband and feared for her own life, so she told the police of her suspicions and began to wear a wire while talking to her husband. The ABC News program "20/20" will air an episode Friday on Karl Karlsen, the . Karl Karlsen, 54, who is currently serving . After her death was deemed accidental, he collected over $200,000 in an insurance payout. According to Oxygen, Christina went against advice from loved ones and decided to stay with Karl for the kids. The jack slipped and the truck fell down on him.. Susan Andrews in Los Angeles in January of 2020 Credit: 2020 Bauer-Griffin. Karl Karlsen made the first payment on his sons policy in cash and was the sole beneficiary, according to Levis handwritten will, which was notarized the day of his death. Former New York State Police investigator Jeff Arnold told ABC: The life insurance policy thats taken out on Levi prior to his death I think its beyond bizarre. You know, to kill your own son and then not have any remorse thats not human, Barry Porsch, the former district attorney for Seneca County told American Greed.. Watch the full story on "20/20" Friday, June 5 at 9 p.m. My mom used to take us on walks all the time and we would collect like leaves or acorns or whatever and press them into little books. The couple met while Karl was a cadet in the Air Force stationed in North Dakota. Eventually a possible motive surfaced, leading investigators to realize they had a murder on their hands. Christina Karlsenwho had been taking a bathgot trapped in the bathroom of the home and died in the blaze, leaving behind her husband Karl and three small children, who had all managed to safely escape the flames. Settling down in Varick, Karlsen married Cindy in 1993, had another child with her and lived quietly on a farm until the second freak incident in 2008. Why? She said that when she and Levi were around 11 or 12, they discussed the possibility that their father was lying about their mothers death. Emily Crane Eventually, someone close to the family came forward with information about Karls involvement spurring an investigation that revealed the man had murdered his loved ones and used their deaths to secure hefty insurance payouts. It's a physics principle. Karlsen and the couple's three children including Levi,. In 1943, Carlson was adopted by a wool broker and his wife, the Carlson family. As Levi writhed in agony, Karlsen turned up the volume on the radio, masking his sons screams. The family relocated to the Fingerlakes region of New York in the town of Varick, where they lived on a farm. In 1991, Karlsen's wife died in a fire after he took out a $200,000 life insurance policy. Investigators in California found the amount of coincidences that led to the fatal fire to be incredible, as one told the Post-Standard in 2012, but once Karlsen left town, the investigation ended. In 2008, just 17 days after Karl had taken a $700,000 life insurance policy out on his son, he asked Leviwith whom he had a strained relationshipto come to the farm to work on the brakes on one of the farm trucks. And now his haunted family is ready to share their story with American Greed. They also found that hed taken out life insurance policies on Levis two daughters. Between the two of uswe knew, because he didnt try, Erin said. In February 2020, Karlsen was convicted for the death of his wife by arson, and the following month, he was sentenced to life in prison without parole. God love her, DeRoche said. It wasnt just the loss of my brother, with that one statement, it was the loss of my father, too., Now that Karlsen is serving two sentences for the murders of his wife and son, DeRoche and Reynolds have different perspectives. Karl Karlsen was found guilty of murdering his wife Christina and his son Levi in two separate incidents 17 years apart. Photos: Dozens dead after trains collide in northern Greece. It said,"RIP, Carl Carlson." A faded picture of Carl's mangled body faded into black. Karl Karlsens second wife, Cindy Best, whom he married two years after Christina Karlsen's death, said she learned about the life insurance policy on Levi shortly after his death. Sign up forOxygen Insiderfor all the best true crime content. It also led California authorities to take a second look at the 1991 death of Christina Karlsen. Canning asks the convicted killer sitting across from her. "NOOOOO!" Homer said sadly. Despite the fire investigators findings, the insurance company paid out the claim. So, that was a kind of a shock but there was no reason for me to question anything at that time, Best told 20/20. I just trusted my husband and this insurance agent that they were setting it up for the best of Levi's daughters.. With the help of fire investigator Ken Buskewho had kept his files on the case for decadesauthorities were able to determine the fire had been deliberately set right outside the bathroom, trapping Christina inside. At one point, the familys barn caught on fire killing multiple horses, garnering another lucrative insurance claim for Karl. By 2012, Karl Karlsens second wife Cindy Best said she and Karls marriage of nearly 20 years was falling apart. When Karlsen was investigated for his sons death in New York in 2012, media coverage of the case and pressure from the family caused the authorities in California to reopen the investigation into Christinas death. and It was a funeral for Carl. He's able to manipulate people very easy. Kossuth County Advance (Newspaper) - October 26, 1933, Algona, Iowa Ont Stop you swing weather auxiliary at installs new officers Swea in stalled officers at its last meet ing As follows Henry my re first her Man Bowman second Clarence Jonson Ray lord Haglund William Leland Frank say ers sergeant at Walter Bovis executive mrs George Nelson Thom and Fred committees appointed for the coming year . Karlsens daughter, 36-year-old Erin DeRoche, told the jury last month that she visited her father in jail as he awaited trial in Levis death, the Union Democrat reported. With Christina gone, his children say Karl took out most of his anger on them. DeRoche told ABC that she and Levi always suspected their father was responsible for their mothers death. Kati Reynolds His fists, pipes, shovels, pitch forks, belts, electric cattle prods. Karl collected $215,000 in insurance money for his wife's death. Get an all-access pass to never-before-seen content, free digital evidence kits, and much more! Karl Karlsen, 54, who is currently serving . In 1991, Christina Karlsen was killed in a house fire. During the Wednesday night episode of the Tucker Carlson Tonight show, the host said: "Between late December of 2020 and last month, a total of 3,362 people apparently died after getting the. Christina Karlsens family in California learned of Levis death when her younger sister, Colette Bousson, got a call from her niece with the news. You look like a whore. She ran to the bathroom crying, Bousson said, adding that the husband would often tease Christina about her weight and call her fat. He started to cry but not in his usual way. Turn on desktop notifications for breaking stories about interest? Authorities in New York had already pieced together Karl Karlsen's long history of collecting life insurance payouts not only for the deaths of family members, but also seemingly tragic accidents. It sounded like a tragic accident, she said. He immigrated with his wife and 2 oldest daughters in 1882. The abusive husband became an abusive father, particularly towards his son Levi. FOX News personality Tucker Carlson has been married to Susan Andrews for nearly three decades. However, a few years later, Karlsens second wife Cindy became suspicious and worked with law enforcement to record conversations with her husband about Levis death. Karl Karlsen Today: Where Is Christina Karlsens Husband Now? I struggle personally because he committed [these crimes] and also [I have] the lost connection of having a dad and part of me still wants a relationship. After talking with authorities, Best agreed to wear a recording device for police while asking Karlsen questions about Levi's and Christina's deaths. [Karl] stated it was barely enough to cover the cost of [Levis] funeral, Reynolds said. And I knew what he did to my brother.. It was propped up on a wobbly jack. He was preceded in death by his parents, Carl and Violet; and a sister, Jan Kooistra. Karl had also taken out life insurance policiestotaling more than $350,000 a pieceon his two young granddaughters, listing himself as the sole beneficiary of the policies. He ultimately confessed and was soon charged with depraved-indifference murder in the second degree. He was walked up to the house and he was kind of kicking at the concrete foundation, um, and then turned around and came back after you know, a few minutes. Get this delivered to your inbox, and more info about our products and services. In November 2008, Karlsens son Levi was killed when the truck he was working on at the Karlsen farm in New York fell on him and crushed him. Now, her son is gone, two young kids grow up without their dad because of one person, Colette Bousson said. DeRoche, Reynolds and Bousson visited the cemetery together the day of Karl Karlsens guilty verdict. Karl made it out to be that Levi didn't trust his ex-wife [and] that Levi wanted his daughters taken care of and he trusted his dad.. Christina and Karl Karlsen with their children, Levi, Kati and Erin. Lenny literally bursted into tears. Best said she confided these findings and her concerns to her cousin, who picked up the phone and called police. According to family members, Karl was mentally controlling over his wife Christina and bullied her. It was devastating for me to have my dad admit [to Levis murder], Reynolds said. Cindy brought her concerns to police, saying she feared Levis death was not just another accident. He will start serving that sentence at the end of his current 15-years-to-life sentence for the death of his son Levi Karlsen in 2008 in New York. As she got older, Deroche said she was able to process what happened and came to believe that her father didn't do enough to help save her mother. Karl Karlsen was found guilty of murdering both his son and his wife in two separate incidents 17 years apart. Levis handwritten will, notarized on the day of his death, indicated that Karlsen was the sole beneficiary. After a family member gave police a tip about the large insurance policy, authorities opened an investigation into Levi's death in 2012. On New Year's Day 1991, her husband Karl Karlsen and their three young children (ages 6, 5, a Calaveras County, Calif., jury convicted Karlsen of first-degree murder. . In 2015, Best cashed out the policies. While they were growing up, another fire broke out in the horse barn in 2002, claiming the lives of three horses and earning Karl another insurance payout, but it would be Levis death that would reward him with the biggest payday. Karl Karlsen had taken out an insurance policy on Christina Karlsen just 19 days before her death and collected more than $200,000 in life insurance money, according to authorities. They made it known the family needed this handled., Once he was charged in New York, it gave me a glimmer of hope that maybe just because of that we could finally get some traction in Calaveras County. While working in England in 1851, Marx had an affair with Helene Demuth while Marx's wife was living apart from him. My aunt was on [investigators] like white on rice to make sure that this happened. Amy Carlson, the actress who had portrayed Linda on the show since the pilot, was also surprised by the way Linda departed the show so suddenly and with no closure for the viewers, as the. Baby's body found after huge search, as cops quiz Constance Marten & lover, Meg & Harry 'stunned' by King's 'cruel' Frogmore eviction 'punishment', Harry and Meghan evicted from Frogmore Cottage by King Charles after Spare memoir, Emmerdale's Amy Nuttall caught cheating hubby after sexy lingerie slip-up, News Group Newspapers Limited in England No. Not long before the blaze, DeRoche, who was just 6years old, remembered her father taking the familys Christmas tree out onto the gravel driveway and lighting it on fire in front of his three children because he wanted us to see how quick a house could burn, she said. Following Levi Karlsens death, Reynolds said her father told her that Levi had a small insurance policy. Her concerns grew so strong that Best hired a private investigator to look into her husband and what he found alarmed her even more. Who the hell puts that kind of life insurance on a 4- and 6-year-old. Copyright 2023 Heavy, Inc. All rights reserved. "The Sun", "Sun", "Sun Online" are registered trademarks or trade names of News Group Newspapers Limited. Rittenhouse is accused of . Though initially ruled as an accident, the authorities became suspicious when they realized that just 17 days prior to Levis death, his father had made him take out an insurance policy for himself and list Karl Karlsen as the sole beneficiary. He maintained it was an accident but admitted that he left his son to die. He moved to the. In 2014, Karlsen was charged with first-degree murder in the death of his wife and extradited to California. To see all content on The Sun, please use the Site Map. In the days that followed, her family would note Karls odd behavior. His fists, pipes, shovels, pitch forks, belts, electric cattle prods Erin DeRoche, one of Karl and Christinas other three children, told the television series. The truck fell off a single jack and landed on top of him. He then moved to New York. She alerted police, prosecutors wrote, and started recording their conversations. Now, for the first time on television, Karl is speaking out about being at the, Man Admits To Killing Son For Life Insurance Crime Watch Daily With Chris Hansen (Pt 1), Karl Karlsen's first wife Christina Karlsen died in a house fire. It was later determined that Christina couldn't escape through the bathroom window because Karlsen had boarded it up from the outside just days earlier because it was supposedly broken. "Then I want him to go away for the rest of forever. Erin DeRoche and Kati Reynolds are no strangers to tragedy. He was born in Lacrosse and moved to Moscow, Idaho, in 1920. She and my grandmother, they were always there and in their ear. DENVERSeveral members of a bizarre spiritual group called "Love Has Won" have been taken into custody after the badly decaying body of the group's leader was found in its headquarters. Prior to Levi's death, his life was on an upswing, Reynolds said. Gary Muehlberger has been a part of the Port cast for 39 years now. Carl Fredricksen is the main character of Up. Powered by. Carlson in Secrets of a Successful Marriage Mrs. Carlson is the wife of Carl Carlson. Cleere questioned Karl Karlsen about a fire that killed his first wife, Christina Karlsen, 17 years before Levi Karlsen's death, the article said. Husband: Carl Carlson Father-in-Law: Unnamed Sister-in-Law: Unnamed First episode appearance "Secrets of a Successful Marriage" Character played by Pamela Hayden "This is terrible!" Mrs. This service is provided on News Group Newspapers' Limited's Standard Terms and Conditions in accordance with our Privacy & Cookie Policy. We made that commitment.. We would go to downtown Murphys and go to the candy shop or the ice cream shop, oldest daughter Erin DeRoche recalled. More than a decade later, Christina and Karls son, Levi, died after being pinned under a pickup truck on his fathers farm. Source: ABC. He would tell her that, you know, she was chubby, the womans sister Colette Bousson says in the American Greed episode. November 7, 2017 10:05am CBS It's been more than a month since the Season 8 premiere of CBS' Blue Bloods dropped a bombshell, revealing that Detective Danny Reagan's (Donnie Wahlberg) ER nurse. Once the authorities began investigating Karlsens involvement in Levis death, they found that Karlsen and his son had met with an insurance agent just 17 days before his sons death. I got my time with [Christina]. The authorities first deemed the death an accident and Karlsen collected a $700,000 payout on his insurance policy. First, Christina died in a house fire on New Year's Day in 1991. Carl Swanson, founded the enterprise in 1899, and it was known as C. A Swanson and Sons. Carl Carlson (right) works with Homer at the nuclear power plant. Duluth. The insurance company also conducted an investigation, hiring Ken Buske to look into the Murphys' house fire. Just hours later, the 23-year-old man, a father of two, laid on his back underneath the truck to take a look. Last week, a prosecutor said he planned to file more severe body-tampering charges against the seven people arrested over Ms Carlson's death. That death was also ruled an accident. age of adaline comet. He determined there was evidence that the fire was set deliberately. broward health medical center human resources phone number; steve watson obituary poplar bluff mo According to authorities, 17 days before Levi Karlsens death, his father introduced his son to an insurance agent and convinced Levi to take out a life insurance policy on himself. Today, Karlsen is serving two sentences for the murder of his wife and his son. as a minor character and in the Disney+ series, Dug Days, as a main character. My sister is gone, three young kids grow up without a mom. From everything that was explained to me, that jack slipped is what I was told. The first thing he said to her was to go take your makeup off. Karl Karlsen was found guilty of murdering both his son and his wife in two separate incidents 17 years apart. After that, he may stay there, or he may be moved to Calaveras County Jail in California, where he was found guilty in 2016 for the first-degree murder of his first wife, Christina. Their home was enveloped in flames on New Years Day in 1991. Was I able to let them see what a great person you are?' Great kid, Karls brother Michael Karlsen told producers. I didn't understand that my mother was behind that wall dying,' Deroche said. After the fire, Karl was awarded $215,000 from an insurance policy and he moved the family across the country to New York. I'll sit [at the cemetery] and I'll be like, 'Did I do enough? It was everything I wanted.. For further details of our complaints policy and to make a complaint please click this link: thesun.co.uk/editorial-complaints/, Christina Karlsen died in a tragic house fire, during which she was unable to escape her bathroom, Her husband and three children survived the fire, but eventually Christina's death and a subsequent death of their son Levi revealed they were both murdered, Information eventually revealed that husband and father Karl Karlsen had murdered his family members and collected hefty insurance policies after their deaths, Credit: Calaveras County Sheriffs Office, Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO). Senator Rob Portman (R-Ohio), This market cycle has defied most forecasts, says Clearbridge Investments' Michael Clarfeld, Fed will be more aggressive starting in March with a 50bps hike, says NatWest's Michelle Girard, Home Depot and Walmart a good hedge for today's economic environment, says UBS's Michael Lasser.